Israel-Gaza war

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Sderot seems to be a particular Hamas target this time around

Probably has more to do with proximity than anything else.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Palestinians have the right to fight and resist apartheid state Israël, in fact they should, and everyone who does is a freedom fighter. They have my support. The oppression needs to end, and no one is interested in peace & diplomacy from the international community.

It's a series of deliberate massacres of civilians. No one has a right to do that.

Than why does Hamas do that?

Because they’re evil and want to kill Jews.

They're defending from a genocide being perpetrated on their people. Whoever attacks them is even irrelevant. Also its not jews, its Israeli people that occupy them. That's different, many Jewish people for instance condemn Israël as well. Many of my political idols are Jewish. Many of the greatest communists ever were Jewish.

Respectfully, get the hell out of this thread. You're ignorant, misinformed and spamming while some people here are trying to have a civilized discussion, analysis and updates. Do us this one favor in this morning of slaughter. We don't need this rambling, we need clear-headed updates and analysis.

Don't ever tell me again what i have to do and what not.

I have the right to post here. Plain and simple.

Then expect to be called out for your apologia for the mass murder of Jews. None of us are in the mood to coddle you.

Read this.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/

This is what you all ignore.

Amnesty is an antisemitic organization. This has been proven time and time again. They want dead Jews, and their word carries zero weight here.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

A thought: what does Hamas really see as its core constituency? What does it see as its goals? We should not look at this purely from the perspective of territory, we should think of this in terms of political goals achieved or flunked, or neither (and not just short-term ones).
Even a conventional defeat might play into Hamas' hands, as Bibi and co could have difficulty getting their goals through in both Gaza and West Bank simultaneously, and the Arab World would be more outraged at what Israeli military actions unfold in Gaza than at Hamas' actions. If its mojo of fighting the Israelis is in better shape than at the start, and they aren't completely smashed, this might even be a net win outcome for Hamas, given they oppose normalization, and value cred as a premier anti-Israeli force in the eyes of the Arab street.
Of course, a messy outcome leaves room for both Hamas and Bibi to end up as net winners in the short-term. Long-term, is another story.

I don’t see Bibi coming out out this as a winner, he has clearly failed the Israeli population, I expect this will result in even more extreme parties coming out on the top. As for Hamas, I don’t expect a lot of survivors.

While it does feel a little crass for me to speculate about electoral implications, it does seem like this poses a strong opening for someone like Benny Gantz, who is seen as a credible national security guy.

The thing is, much like the second Intifada, an attack of this scale and viciousness ends the chances of any pro-concessions movement for a long time. So attacking Netanyahu on his failings as a security chief and promising effective action against the enemy might be a winning strategy for his top opposition.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Hopefully we stay the hell out and don't give Israel a cent.

Hopefully we give Israel , air support

Israel isn't asking for any military support. This isn't Ukraine. Hamas is a massively outgunned, incredibly vicious enemy with no chance of victory but every chance of causing immense suffering. It's closer to 9/11 than Pearl Harbor or anything else, in that the attacked country will now take the gloves off.

The US is needed for exactly two things - regular Iron Dome replenishment, which is already assumed, and a firm grip on its UN veto pen. But this isn't their war and Israel doesn't want it to be.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

A thought: what does Hamas really see as its core constituency? What does it see as its goals? We should not look at this purely from the perspective of territory, we should think of this in terms of political goals achieved or flunked, or neither (and not just short-term ones).
Even a conventional defeat might play into Hamas' hands, as Bibi and co could have difficulty getting their goals through in both Gaza and West Bank simultaneously, and the Arab World would be more outraged at what Israeli military actions unfold in Gaza than at Hamas' actions. If its mojo of fighting the Israelis is in better shape than at the start, and they aren't completely smashed, this might even be a net win outcome for Hamas, given they oppose normalization, and value cred as a premier anti-Israeli force in the eyes of the Arab street.
Of course, a messy outcome leaves room for both Hamas and Bibi to end up as net winners in the short-term. Long-term, is another story.

I don’t see Bibi coming out out this as a winner, he has clearly failed the Israeli population, I expect this will result in even more extreme parties coming out on the top. As for Hamas, I don’t expect a lot of survivors.

While it does feel a little crass for me to speculate about electoral implications, it does seem like this poses a strong opening for someone like Benny Gantz, who is seen as a credible national security guy.

The thing is, much like the second Intifada, an attack of this scale and viciousness ends the chances of any pro-concessions movement for a long time. So attacking Netanyahu on his failings as a security chief and promising effective action against the enemy might be a winning strategy for his top opposition.

No. You don't get it. Gantz, Netanyahu etc, this doesn't help any of them. This is the most radical right-shift in Israeli history.

I don't think you get that the foreign policy of everyone to the right of Meretz will be identical after this.

Ben Gvir and his ilk being in the government right now isn't going to help them.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Dumb move by Palestine but I’ll not shed fake tears for Israel considering all the history of this conflict either. That’s exactly what they were waiting and hoping for, some excuse to get into direct war without getting too bad of a PR in the West. Would honestly be wonderful if both sides could lose. We’re talking about an imperialist apartheid regime oppressing an Islamic theocracy that violates the human rights of minorities.

Naturally, the Western and White Imperialist countries will side with Israel because that’s who they identify with better and the Islamic Dictatorships will side with Palestine because it’s the one culturally closer to them as well.

Yeah, that's exactly what we expected from you. If only there was some unifying factory between Ukraine and Israel that would explain this at the moment.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Dumb move by Palestine but I’ll not shed fake tears for Israel considering all the history of this conflict either. That’s exactly what they were waiting and hoping for, some excuse to get into direct war without getting too bad of a PR in the West. Would honestly be wonderful if both sides could lose. We’re talking about an imperialist apartheid regime oppressing an Islamic theocracy that violates the human rights of minorities.

Naturally, the Western and White Imperialist countries will side with Israel because that’s who they identify with better and the Islamic Dictatorships will side with Palestine because it’s the one culturally closer to them as well.

Yeah, that's exactly what we expected from you. If only there was some unifying factory between Ukraine and Israel that would explain this at the moment.

Israeli support for Ukraine has been very tepid. Weren't they at one point floated as a neutral location for peace talks?

Irrelevant, but Israel's approach to Ukraine under Bennett/Lapid (trying not to anger Russia, while providing non-lethal aid and taking in refugees) was very different to what it's generally doing under Netanyahu.

Either way, if Russia was even tangentially involved here, as seems likely, that's probably going to change.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Hopefully we stay the hell out and don't give Israel a cent.

Hopefully we give Israel , air support

Israel isn't asking for any military support. This isn't Ukraine. Hamas is a massively outgunned, incredibly vicious enemy with no chance of victory but every chance of causing immense suffering. It's closer to 9/11 than Pearl Harbor or anything else, in that the attacked country will now take the gloves off.

The US is needed for exactly two things - regular Iron Dome replenishment, which is already assumed, and a firm grip on its UN veto pen. But this isn't their war and Israel doesn't want it to be.

The US has given Israel an abundance of military support over the years, including the F-35s, free of charge.

We'll cross that bridge when we come to it, but some paranoid or ill-intentioned people seem to be pushing the elaborate conspiracy theory that the US will be asked to send troops to help Israel beat Hamas, a band of feral sadists that only continue to exist because the US and other allies of Israel actively get Israel to limit its response to attacks.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

This is a terrible tragedy, both for the Israelis killed by the Hamas attack and especially for all innocent Palestinians who will no doubt be in IDF prison camps by the end of the month, if the regime even allows them to live that long.

"I'm sorry for both the victims, and the future victims of the terrible scenario I made up in my head".

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

This is a terrible tragedy, both for the Israelis killed by the Hamas attack and especially for all innocent Palestinians who will no doubt be in IDF prison camps by the end of the month, if the regime even allows them to live that long.

"I'm sorry for both the victims, and the future victims of the terrible scenario I made up in my head".

Sure but you don’t even need to make up victims, Palestinian civilians are already dead.

Yes, as in every case where a war is launched by a vicious attack from an undermanned, weaker force against a stronger power. Israel's response is absolutely proportional compared to how the US would respond to an attack like this.

The idea that the Palestinian population is about to be liquidated is a fiction and arguably a blood libel.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Quite a few people suddenly comfortable with advocating for the elimination of another seven million Jews. Wish I could be surprised, but I'm not.

Either way, we all know how that ends and Israel certainly doesn't want it, but there it is.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Quite a few people suddenly comfortable with advocating for the elimination of another seven million Jews. Wish I could be surprised, but I'm not.

Either way, we all know how that ends and Israel certainly doesn't want it, but there it is.

A lot of people in here also seem to think Israeli lives are inherently more valuable than non Israeli lives.

We have a separate thread for this now. That goes for both of you.

My comment was in direct response to people upthread stating they hope Iran gets involved so both countries destroy each other - aka, the elimination of everyone in Israel. This isn't some abstract argument.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Trump is blaming Biden:

Joe Biden’s ineptitude, weakness, and incompetence has led to this horrible attack on Israel, and it will only get worse. Just four years ago we had the signing of the historic Abraham Accords, and today we have an attack on Israel. What a difference a President makes!

The least surprising thing of the day. The man never saw a crisis he didn't want to make about himself.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

New update from Netanyahu. Key quote:

He says he spoke with President Biden and other world leaders from France, Britain and beyond, thanks Biden for his “unreserved support,” and says he secured international backing for “freedom of action” for Israel.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/netanyahu-thanks-biden-for-unreserved-support-says-israel-faces-challenging-days-but-will-win/

My (possibly piss-poor) reading of the tea-leaves leads me to think he is hinting at some operation to not just push Hamas out of the areas of Israeli territory it has captured, but break their rule over Gaza once and for all.

I gotta say, I know a lot of pro-Israel people were hesitant about him because of his close ties to the last Dem President, but Biden has exceeded my expectations on this issue at every turn.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

So, the reason why hamas managed to enter so easily is because the military are busy babysitting the security of west bank settlers? If I was Israeli I would be furious at the selfishness.

Once the initial rally-round-the-flag moment wears off, Netanyahu and his team will have a LOT to answer for. There might be a parallel here to how Cuomo went from being the hero of Covid to one of its biggest goats.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

https://thehill.com/policy/international/4243414-medvedev-says-hamas-attacks-expected-development/

Former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said Hamas’ widespread attacks on Israel Saturday “come as an expected development,” using the opportunity to denounce U.S. influence in the Middle East and in Ukraine.

The Palestinian militant group launched the largest attack on Israel in decades early Saturday, invading multiple Israeli towns and launching missiles into the country.

The Palestinian government claimed that about 200 people have died, while the Israeli government said there have been about 40 deaths.

I hope Netanyahu sees this and realizes what a stupid idea it is to ever trut anyone within fifteen feet of the Kremlin today.

Yeah, Bennett/Lapid never had anything more with Putin than trying to appease him, but Bibi actually thinks he can work with him. And that's a recipe for disaster.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

In more relevant news (which may have already been posted here) Muslims in London and Berlin have publicly celebrated the terrorist attacks. Videos show processions of honking vehicles in London and sweets being handed out in Berlin.

DSA-NY is planning a rally celebrating the attack in New York tomorrow as well. If two years ago is any indication, it'll spill out and target the Jewish community. I hope Adams is on the ball, unlike De Blasio who actively allowed the NY pogrom to take place mostly unimpeded.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Yeah, the issue isn't that women are more deserving of release, it's that the feral sadists of Hamas target women and girls for a special kind of abuse. But it doesn't matter, because there will be no prisoner exchanges. The price Hamas demands for them is too high and can't be paid in the aftermath of a slaughter. The only way any of the hostages come home is via escape or liberation, and the latter will likely require a level of military strike that will make many people incredibly uncomfortable. But it doesn't matter. The rubicon has been crossed.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Also I'd bet top dollar some of the men are being SAed as well, but that doesn't stir the same rage in people. Smh

I doubt it about grown men (and I'd honestly be surprised if many of the men are still alive) but boys, absolutely. Because there is no level to which Hamas won't sink.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Yeah, the issue isn't that women are more deserving of release, it's that the feral sadists of Hamas target women and girls for a special kind of abuse. But it doesn't matter, because there will be no prisoner exchanges. The price Hamas demands for them is too high and can't be paid in the aftermath of a slaughter. The only way any of the hostages come home is via escape or liberation, and the latter will likely require a level of military strike that will make many people incredibly uncomfortable. But it doesn't matter. The rubicon has been crossed.

So you're saying that people need to throw the hostages under the bus just to strike Gaza hard

You have absolutely no clue how Hamas operates.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Yeah, this feels like a warning and potential backup in case Iran gives the order for Hezbollah to launch a full attack and then gets involved themselves.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

How likely is a unity government at this point? German news reported earlier that Gantz and Lapid offered a national unity cabinet with Bibi as long as the far-right parties leave. I guess that would be a good solution and also sink the justice reform.

It seems like Netanyahu has basically said that anyone is welcome to join him but he's not kicking anyone out, so it seems unlikely.

Although the thing is, at this point I imagine the foreign policy of everyone from Gantz to Smotrich would be near-identical.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

If 300 Israelis people are dead (the number is actually higher) that is 3 9/11s. Imagine if 9/11 wasn't just a plane attack though, but an invasion that also resulted in at least 1500 hostages and Americans being raped and murdered, including children, in their own homes. Can anyone who does not simply want the Israelis to give up and die tell me with a straight face that in that analogy America/Israel should just sit back and drop a couple of bombs and treat it like any other terrorist attack? If not, then what should Israel do? Should it occupy the equivalent of 80 million people forever, losing more of its own lives in the process to police people who think it not only okay but morally good to molest Israelis in the street?

If Israel can't exist without ethnically cleansing two million people, it doesn't deserve to exist. And I hope that if they actually go through with doing so, the US government grows some conscience and imposes crippling sanctions on them until they collapse utterly.

Israel could turn Gaza into a parking lot and we would still fund them. Maybe 20 Dems + Massie would vote no instead of 10, otherwise no change.

Tbh I think Israel would have to launch an unwarranted nuke to lose our money, and even then I'm not sure.

The surest way to put nukes on the table is to cut off Israel from US support, which is why I imagine there's so much intense resistance to even entertain the ideas.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

How likely is a unity government at this point? German news reported earlier that Gantz and Lapid offered a national unity cabinet with Bibi as long as the far-right parties leave. I guess that would be a good solution and also sink the justice reform.

It seems like Netanyahu has basically said that anyone is welcome to join him but he's not kicking anyone out, so it seems unlikely.

Although the thing is, at this point I imagine the foreign policy of everyone from Gantz to Smotrich would be near-identical.

How do you think Lapid's foreign policy would differ? (Assuming you see him as to the left of Gantz here). I wouldn't be shocked if even Meretz gets on board with a major operation in Gaza at this point, leaving just Ben Gvir raging about wiping out every last Palestinian and a few Hadashniks blaming the JewsZionists for having it coming.

Oh, I include him in that. We got to see him in action during his PM tenure, and while I imagine he might have a softer hand inside Israel proper/the West Bank, Gaza is in for the same response for anyone right of Labor or maybe even Meretz.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

The presence of a certain person and their slipping back into judenhass rhetoric only a few weeks after being unbanned feels like a dramatic security failure on the part of the mods.